6 comments

  • samuel 2 hours ago
    This article does an abysmal job of describing the situation, but I hope a skeptical reader will realize that something is very odd when they notice that these protests are directed against the opposition and not against the government.
    • perilunar 58 minutes ago
      What's so hard to understand? The opposition blocked the (minority) government's legislation, so people are protesting the opposition's actions. Maybe not a common occurrence, but seem's pretty straightforward to me.
  • pj_mukh 2 hours ago
    This now just looks like YIMBY’s screwing over old ladies out of their homes.

    I empathize with a universal right to housing, but is that a universal right to a house in East village NY, Marina SF or El Retiro Madrid?

    For everybody?

    Or only for those who got in, in the 90’s?

    How does that seem fair?

    These details have to be worked out before you can get the public to commit to one of these and just rioting in response will only get you so far.

    • cft 2 hours ago
      Retiro is a park, no buildings there. Are you proposing CA style encampments?
      • ricardobayes 1 hour ago
        They mentioned it specifically because the evicted lady lived there on a very low, outdated rental contract, think $500 in Central Park.
        • jareklupinski 29 minutes ago
          honestly if youve lived in nyc through the 90's and stayed, the city should be paying you haha
      • ErneX 1 hour ago
        It’s a district, which includes the park but also very expensive properties.
    • MiroslavPokorny 2 hours ago
      Yes because these same old people contributed significantly to building the country. ALl the schools, roads, houses, buildings for this and that are only here because of them.
      • sam_lowry_ 1 hour ago
        The same old people burned all oil, consumed all gaz and left upon the next generation scarcity and climate change to solve.
      • pj_mukh 2 hours ago
        Right so that gets you inflation adjusted pensions/social security, unlimited healthcare, even in the healthcare black hole that is America.

        But that’s still not enough, you also need preferential rent control for wherever you want to live for the remaining few of boomers who don’t already own the largest swath of real-estate.

  • ricardobayes 1 hour ago
    It's difficult to comment on news like this, if there was a good, fast solution, it would have been enacted by now. I do somewhat agree that more renter protection is unlikely to solve much. Spain had years of complete eviction bans, meaning even if you completely default on your rent, the owner couldn't do anything. Even if a court ordered removal, enforcement was impossible.

    This lady was living in a very desirable, central area of Madrid, paying peanuts for rent. Think Central Park rent for $500.

    The spanish public generally doesn't want to, "build more", as they reject megacities. One of the biggest problem is there are no good, viable second and third-tier cities that have jobs. While there are very cheap places on the countryside, no one wants to live there as there are no jobs.

    A complex solution would help: Canada-style ban of non-resident ownership, at least in stressed areas, "building more", but not in Madrid, Barcelona or Valencia, and in parallel, boost small businesses and remote work to help de-centralize living. However I don't think any country really cracked the code how to fix housing.

    • pjmlp 1 hour ago
      As Iberian, the reality on the other side is unfortunately quite similar, the remote working part is spot on.

      We have a very strong culture regarding office work, meaning those in charge.

      When I see news or talk to friends, relatives, it seems the daily reality is eons away from central, northern Europe regarding remote, even after covid.

      So it is back to either living on the city center, or spending 4 hours a day commuting from the city outskirts, with several connections, and various timetables.

      While at the same time, we have those sponsored housing, and gold visas, for digital nomads with US salaries, which make natives very unhappy not being able to afford rentals priced for foreigner purses.

      Those making TikTok and YouTube Shorts videos how living in Portugal and Spain is so great, the food and the "cheap" prices.

    • coolestguy 56 minutes ago
      > this, if there was a good, fast solution, it would have been enacted by now.

      Why? Is it the law that governments have to a) be on your side? Or b) be effective?

      Your underlying assumption is completely

  • ErneX 2 hours ago
    The current government has only worsened the situation and now somehow they want to be the champions of fixing after almost 8 years in power. They are not fooling anybody.
    • spwa4 16 minutes ago
      Have you seen the protest? Obviously they are fooling millions.
      • ErneX 2 minutes ago
        Seen them yes, but the polls say otherwise, if elections were to happen now the majority of the parliament will be composed of the current opposition parties.

        This term started with the wrong foot anyway, there’s a feeble majority that included a right wing party from Catalonia that based their political support to the governing left just based on the promise of judicial favours (pardons for crimes related to the Catalonia independence movement/crisis). It’s precisely that party that voted no on the emergency decree they wanted to have regarding the housing crisis.

  • jadermcs 2 hours ago
    The solution to house prices increase is to build more houses, but the protests demand to freeze prices instead of building more. Are they dumb or is it intentional to keep their cities small and exclusive?
    • plqbfbv 2 hours ago
      > Are they dumb or is it intentional to keep their cities small and exclusive?

      Madrid has 3.4Mln people and is the second-largest city in the EU. How big do you want it to become?

      I disagree on "just build more". There was a time where salaries moved more or less line with cost of living, and especially rents, but with AirBnB and estate funds sucking up any and all places they find, there's an enormous pressure that drives up rents for common people, which already struggle as-is to make ends meet. "Just build more" would simply keep pushing those towards the edges of town over time, while the city becomes a glorified luxury hotel that only rich people can afford. I welcome new regulation to combat this.

      I just hope this event shatters any hope for the ultra-right parties that voted against it, and that people remember this. Ultimately, if anyone will build more, it'll still be the large real estate companies and funds that keep increasing rents on their tenants.

      • ErneX 1 hour ago
        Last time they touched the housing laws one of the brilliant things they did was to force the owner of the flat to pay the expenses for signing the leasing contract of their tenants, before that change this was paid by the tenant. What happened is the landlords switched from long term rentals to short term rentals because they did not modify that clause for those type of rentals, so the tenants got the worse outcome: rental contracts of 11 months instead of 5 years, which also opens the door to massive rent increases every 11 months or eviction instead of just the inflation rate of the year under the other contracts.

        They also keep increasing the difficulty of evicting non paying tenants, taking a lot of rentals out of the market because owners are simply afraid of not being able to evict a non paying tenant, or making prices increase to account for that risk.

        • ricardobayes 1 hour ago
          > was to force the owner of the flat to pay the expenses for signing the leasing contract of their tenants

          The reality is, anyone renting in Spain can readily tell you things don't work this way, if you query this, they go with someone else. Tenants paying the contract fee has an enormous momentum and it's way to easy for landlords to ignore it, in our hot housing market.

          • ErneX 10 minutes ago
            Like I said, in order to avoid this mandate they turned their rentals into short term ones, the law had a loophole which made everything worse.
      • cousin_it 1 hour ago
        > Madrid has 3.4Mln people and is the second-largest city in the EU. How big do you want it to become?

        Bigger, obviously. Because the number of people who want to live in Madrid or visit it is higher than that. This can create a lot of economic surplus. Part of that surplus can be used to pay off locals (e.g. with housing in the newly built stock) so they win too.

        The real problem, as far as I can tell, is that there's no socially accepted system for paying off locals. So locals end up resisting growth, because there's nothing in it for them except higher rents, and everyone loses.

      • jadermcs 48 minutes ago
        Tokyo has almost 15 million and works very well as a city. China is building many new cities close to the big cities to allow housing. The young population needs to live in the big cities because where the jobs are. Freezing prices will not solve the problem for the vast majority of the people besides the ones that were lucky to born in the place before the freeze.
      • TitaRusell 55 minutes ago
        You keep building until everyone has a house. There is no such thing as "too big".

        The Dutch government designed entire cities and reclaimed land from the sea in the 1970s and it's already full. Human civilization is endless growth or death.

      • ricardobayes 1 hour ago
        I also reject "just building more", at least in already too big cities. I think a more viable long-term approach would be to foster the economy in such way that creates more jobs in smaller cities. Spain needs cities like "Düsseldorf" or "Austin".
        • cinntaile 1 hour ago
          I am sceptical of this kind of central planning. Fighting against organic growth and artificially trying to increase jobs in other cities seems like it would cost a lot more as a whole than trying to solve the problem where it actually exists.
      • cinntaile 2 hours ago
        Build more and higher. Often times people don't want to build higher although they really need to, I hope Madrid is not one of those places.

        Ban AirBnB's and ban estate funds from owning homes.

        • Ekaros 6 minutes ago
          Nothing wrong with estate funds owning homes as long as you keep building. They will invest at slight profits and that is why to give flexibility that renters need.

          Just need to prevent them from hoarding land or delaying building.

    • patall 2 hours ago
      From experience, a lot of older people do not understand how hard it is to get an in-demand apartment, especially if rent controlled. They get the price/rent and they know that they personally dont want to pay for more housing (by having said housing built in their backyard). So this aligns with their personal preferance.
    • mitxela 1 hour ago
      Things aren't not getting built because prices are too low.
    • herbst 2 hours ago
      Unlimited growth always is the answer. murica!!
      • stratos123 1 hour ago
        America famously doesn't do the unlimited growth these days - that's why they also have a terrible housing shortage.
      • MiroslavPokorny 2 hours ago
        And unlimited growth is why America has no $40T debt or did i get that wrong ?
        • toomuchtodo 1 hour ago
          Capital class is hungry for perpetual growth and profits (which came from a continually growing population over decades). Only lasts so much longer with fertility rates in terminal decline globally. It’ll be icky until we get to the point where deaths outnumber births forever into the future, but all countries will reach peak population eventually.

          In this context, you only need a housing supply curve that stays slightly ahead of domestic population demand and can follow fertility rates down over the next century. Spain’ population will drop by a third by 2100, for example, and reached peak population in 2023. If migration is causing housing demand to exceed supply, impair migration demand until housing supply catches up, if it can.

          https://ourworldindata.org/which-countries-have-already-pass...

          https://ourworldindata.org/population-simulation-tool?demogr...

          • MiroslavPokorny 55 minutes ago
            Life is more complicated than a curve. Assuming that its as simple as matching houses to population growth is broken because guess what people move, and homes dont.

            Its that simple.

      • spwa4 2 hours ago
        So you want cheap housing, for more people, with no-one forced to leave and no growth (which given the post you reacted to means no or limited building of houses/apartments)?

        Should we paint the moon a more romantic pink color too?

    • patriciobcs 2 hours ago
      There is a lot of empty housing in this cities, and big real state corps have fiscal advantage to take over any new building so that would not fully solve the problem in Spain at least.
    • MiroslavPokorny 2 hours ago
      The solution is never MORE.

      Look at traffic jams, if what you claimed was true, then traffic jams in LA should never happen.

      Building homes and all the supporting infrastructure from roads, schools or even parks takes a lot of time and money. The movement of tourists for example is always going to be significantly quicker, because its very easy to move a bus of people to Madrid, while it takes years to build a home for them.

      • samuel 1 hour ago
        Spain receives 500k immigrants/year and builds 90k homes/year.

        I understand everyone has an opinion about housing prices, but your intuitions may not be well adjusted to Spain's circumstances.

        • MiroslavPokorny 53 minutes ago
          Building new homes is always a delayed by a few years because homes dont just appear.

          Secondly its very easy for people to move, while homes are fixed to the ground.

          These are just too examples why in this modern age of constant change, there will always be a housing crisis. Looking at the world, its not only Spain with a housing crisis - its basically every single country and the cause is "change".

          THis "change" and movement of people means the building of homes can never win, because it takes years to build a home and the supporting community of schools and hospitals.

  • GuestFAUniverse 2 hours ago
    I hope people vote accordingly and do not forget who dismissed the decree.