Hittite royal archive found in Turkey

(thehistoryblog.com)

230 points | by benbreen 9 hours ago

12 comments

  • schleck8 3 hours ago
    The Hittites were one of the largest empires in the ancient world, but up until the last two centuries, the only proper documentation of them was in the Bible, which is why many historians suspected that they were a fictional civilization.

    In 1834, French archaelogist Texier found the ruins of their capital Hattusa in modern day Turkey. But he assumed it was Pteria, a city mentioned in ancient Greek documents.

    It took another ~ 70 years for German archaelogist Winckler to realize that this was the Hittite capital, based on clay tablets.

    • nautikos2 1 hour ago
      This is not correct because we don't know what the Hittites called themselves. This civilization, when it was found, was named after the Biblical tribe. There is no relation established between the two.
    • wl 2 hours ago
      The Bible is not proper documentation of the Hittites. All the texts that mention the Hittites post-date the fall of the empire based out of Ḫattuša by centuries. It's an open question whether the Hittites of the Bible refer to Ḫattuša or "Neo-Hittites" better described as Luwian-Aramean.
      • schleck8 1 hour ago
        > All the texts that mention the Hittites post-date the fall of the empire based out of Ḫattuša by centuries

        I don't see how this would invalidate the legitimacy of the documentation. The Hittites were large enough to be visible to contemporary historians and scriptures were used for information preserval. Even if our knowledge was only preserved through written documents, we'd have a good grasp of history 300 years ago, especially of major societies. People weren't primitive back then, they even had state archives with historical records which the Bible mentions in a few places for further reading.

        • wl 46 minutes ago
          We're talking about a Levantine Iron Age text discussing Bronze Age peoples where civilization collapsed in the interim. In the case of Ḫattuša, the state archives were almost certainly unreadable by the time the Biblical texts were written, evidenced by the lack of any Hittite cuneiform texts being produced or copied in the Iron Age. Egypt and Mesopotamia maintained texts and the ability to read those texts across the collapse. The same cannot be said about Syria-Anatolia and the Levant.

          That isn't to say that the Biblical texts can't reflect a memory passed on through oral tradition or knowledge from Mesopotamia and Egypt. But given that the geography of the Hittites of the Bible seems to line up more with the later "Neo-Hittite" Luwian-Arameans than Ḫattuša and that the Bible doesn't seem to be aware of the empire of Ḫattuša, the Biblical Hittites are probably not Ḫattuša.

  • sherr 4 hours ago
    The History Blog is a small gem because it is serious and not sensational. Always with a good level of detail for the average interested visitor, and from the original (or close by) sources. Plus pictures.
  • simonh 1 hour ago
    We have some copies of royal correspondence found in Egypt, written on cuneiform tablets. They used them for messages to foreign kings because they're compact and durable. A lot of the surviving tablets are begging letters asking the Egyptians for gold. We even have some practice tablets from teaching Egyptian scribes to do this.

    Anyway I think some of these documents are of communications with Hittite kings, so it would be great to get some instances of the "other side" of some of these letters.

    • wl 35 minutes ago
      That would be Amarna Letters 41-44.

      A quotation from a letter sent by Ankhesenamun, Tutankhamun's widow, to Hittite king Šuppiluliuma I was found in Ḫattuša. Ankhesenamun asked Šuppiluliuma to send her one of her sons to marry her and become king of Egypt. Šuppiluliuma initially thinks this is a ruse, but the story eventually checks out and Šuppiluliuma sends a son. That son is killed on his journey and a war between Egypt and Ḫattuša ensues.

    • palmotea 50 minutes ago
      > A lot of the surviving tablets are begging letters asking the Egyptians for gold. We even have some practice tablets from teaching Egyptian scribes to do this.

      I'm imagining a class on "begging for gold" being given to young Egyptian scribes.

  • flowerthoughts 3 hours ago
    > This year’s excavation unearthed 131 cuneiform tablets and fragments which record an epidemic of fever, military logistics, religious practices and events of royal daily life 3,400 years ago.

    Nice time machine you've got there. Not just vases and bones, but thoughts and societal complexities.

    • wl 2 hours ago
      My Hittite language class went online during COVID and switched from studying royal annals to the Plague Prayers of Muršili II. One of the most enlightening parts of studying the ancient world is seeing that even in very alien cultures separated by millennia, we're all just people.
      • tourmalinetaco 30 minutes ago
        My favorite piece of this will always be the Pompeii bathroom graffiti, with all the usual suspects. Guys really are dudes and it’s a beautiful thing.
      • pfdietz 1 hour ago
        In the case of the Assyrian rulers, really terrible people.
  • Telaneo 1 hour ago
    Looking forward to seeing this expanding our understanding of the Hittite lexicon and its relationship with the rest of the Indo-European languages.
  • idoubtit 3 hours ago
    This article rephrases and shortens the original article: https://www.dailysabah.com/life/hittite-royal-archive-with-1...
    • dizhn 4 minutes ago
      Ah Erdoğan's west facing mouthpiece.
  • vegnus 2 hours ago
    This is such incredible news! I was just wondering the other day if we are ever going to find more Bronze age writings. Such an endlessly fascinating time period
    • timcobb 39 minutes ago
      What about it?
      • vegnus 22 minutes ago
        I always found the Jaynes' Bicameral Mind theory interesting, hypothesizing essentially Bronze age peoples did not have conscious thought, but attributed their thoughts to gods speaking to them. It's probably not true, but it's kind of like an era that can only exist through mythology and legend. So when actual details are discovered, and a little bit of the darkness is lifted, I always find it interesting
  • 01100011 21 minutes ago
    > One text tells of a fever epidemic that struck the infant daughter of the king. She was still a nursing baby when she became ill. She never recovered from the fever and her health declined precipitously until she passed away.

    Wow, the infant daughter was nursing a baby? Were the Hittites like aphids which can be pregnant while still in the womb?

    As much as I hate AI slop, sometimes I think people are better off leaving writing to robots.

    • neil_naveen 19 minutes ago
      The text says "a nursing baby," meaning the infant was being nursed, not that she was nursing a baby.
  • ajb 2 hours ago
    "Another notable document is a letter from Hittite generals in western Anatolia appealing to the king for reinforcements in men, horses and chariots to fend off enemy forces. "

    I had assumed they had to wait for clay to dry before it could be carried anywhere, which seems incompatible with using them for urgent military messages. I wonder if there was a way to transport them while soft, or if this was just the archival copy of a message sent by other means.

    • ACS_Solver 33 minutes ago
      Most tablets were air dried, which would take a day or two. But some tablets were fired - dried in a kiln. I don't know about Hittites but at least in Mesopotamia, air drying was by far the most common method and only some important ones were fired. So methods were certainly available to dry a tablet quickly if necessary but I doubt if air drying delays made much of a difference. Messages and goods were limited to the speed of horse after all.
    • AnimalMuppet 2 hours ago
      It's not like they had to wait for the clay to dry, and then sent the message via email over fiber optic cable. It would take days to reach the palace. Drying it (maybe in a small kiln?) first was a small part of the delay.
  • einpoklum 3 hours ago
    What artifacts are we leaving which will allow people in 3400 years to get a glimpse of daily events in our lives?

    Digital information and toner/ink on paper will not last nearly that long.

    Maybe humans of this age should be curating some etching on stone or even more durable materials, to record some of our history for posterity?

    • wl 1 hour ago
      We've already seen this happen in the land of cuneiform. In the first millennium BCE, Akkadian cuneiform on tablets was replaced by Aramaic written on papyrus and vellum. The cuneiform survives in large quantity, the Aramaic barely at all. The Story of Aḥiqar, for example, comes from Mesopotamia and the only copy that survives in the original language somehow found its way to Elephantine in Egypt where the climate allowed it to (barely) survive. It puts Assyriologists in a weird position where there's plenty of textual documentation of earlier eras but far, far less in later eras. We're left with odd situations like the best documentation we have of Nebuchadnezzar II's reign coming from the Bible because the Bible got copied and the Babylonian texts that might provide a different emic perspective did not.
      • tourmalinetaco 15 minutes ago
        That’s not really an “odd” situation, though. That’s kind of just how it goes. The culturally important texts like the Bible get copied and spread, but who cares about the government’s documentation? Literally no one, unfortunately. Preservation within the historical record is in large part a mix of media used and popularity; a popular text can afford to be written on less durable materials, but using those less durable materials for unpopular documents? And they’ll be lost over time.
    • jopsen 2 hours ago
      They can just ask you, you'll live on in the weights of the future models.
      • un-diletante 1 hour ago
        I wonder if Claude will descend into hell to rescue the poor souls of those who died before it's coming, patiently awaiting digitization in the bosom of Turing.
        • vegnus 1 hour ago
          i have a mouth and am screaming
    • rantallion 3 hours ago
      Isn't that one of the driving forces behind research like Project Silica? Sure, it won't capture everything that everyone produces, but the 'important stuff' can be preserved for millennia.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5D_optical_data_storage

    • b112 2 hours ago
      We have those CDs made of stone we could use! That's sorta a stone .. thing.
    • toomuchtodo 3 hours ago
  • saccode 50 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • jagaerglad 3 hours ago
    inb4 Turkish ultra-nationalists claiming their language is just a dialect of Turkish
    • m_a_g 1 hour ago
      This is not reddit
    • usrnm 2 hours ago
      The languages aren't even related. Hittite is an Indo-European language, closer related to English than Turkish
      • logicchains 2 hours ago
        Kurdish is also Indo-European, but that doesn't stop Turks claiming it's just a dialect of Turkish (mountain Turkish).
        • mda 1 hour ago
          Apart from a few idiots nobody claims it is Turkish dialect.

          There are some shared vocabulary, but thats pretty much it. Kurdish is much closer to Farsi.

        • TFNA 52 minutes ago
          Instead of parsing "mountain Turkish" as "mountain+turkish", parse it as " mountain turk+ish". The use of the term "Mountain Turk" arose in the Atatürk era as a quick way to nip any discussions of those ethnic minorities in the bud. That is all the term serves for. It doesn't mean that Turks believe Kurds actually speak a language genetically related to their own.
      • Bayart 2 hours ago
        The current consensus is not that Hittite is Indo-European, it's that Anatolian languages (including Hittite) are related to Indo-European, both stemming from proto-Indo-Anatolian.
        • TFNA 1 hour ago
          I actually work in this field, so I can encourage you to do some further reading and get to grips with the terminology. "Indo-European" remains among experts the most popular way to refer to the entire language family, Anatolian and non-Anatolian. Terms like "Nuclear IE" and "Core IE" are often employed to distinguish the non-Anatolian languages.

          "Indo-Anatolian" for the higher-level family is a term that some may use here and there, but no expert would ever make a "well, acktually..." remark as you just did to those in a discussion, professional or layman, using "Indo-European"

          • cwnyth 22 minutes ago
            It's not consensus (yet?), but Kloekhorst's categorization does put the Anatolian split first and early, making it essentially two separate branches of PIE. He isn't concerned about the terminology, but it does allow for alternatives, and "Proto-Indo-Hittite" is now a century-old term.

            Despite the terms used, Anatolian and non-Anatolian languages are seen as two separate branches.

            Maybe I'm being too charitable, but I hadn't read that user's comment as a "well, acktually", especially given the chain of comments, but perhaps I'm wrong.

            • TFNA 15 minutes ago
              Everyone puts the Anatolian split first and early. It doesn't mean the use of the term "Indo-European" for the entire family, Anatolian included, is in any way superseded or unpopular among experts.
        • wl 1 hour ago
          I don't think that's the consensus. Even if it were the consensus, the I doubt the people making the argument would disagree that the Anatolian languages are closely related to the Indo-European languages. The grammar is classic Indo-European, with 7-9 cases depending on the period. The vocabulary has a lot of cognates with Indo-European languages. The only things that really distinguish Hittite from Indo-European languages are the system of enclitics and grammatical gender based on animacy rather than the usual masculine/feminine/neuter.
        • DC-3 2 hours ago
          That's not the consensus and even if it were it's largely a pointless semantic argument.
    • aaa_aaa 2 hours ago
      In 1930s.
    • timdiggerm 3 hours ago
      isn't everything?